Any reason that on the left below should not be the new logo of the New York Road Runners? I was reading over at
MarathonGuide.com, they once again find it ridiculous that the New York Road Runner$ are printing money as usual in a perhaps bogus fee. If you are not a
NYRR member, the NY
C Marathon is $166! the International Fee?
$221. Damn...(the only saving grace for foreign runners is the U.S. dollar sucks on the exchange market). However
Marathonguide.com addresses this "*lottery "processing fee". They say, "....Registration open from 2/25 to 5/1 for guaranteed and international participants and through 6/1 for general lottery participants - plus, our annual pet peeve moment... Acceptance into the
ING New York City Marathon is one of the most difficult annual feats for runners. Registration by lottery is 'til June 1st with the results announced in mid-June. By certain estimates, approximately 50,000 lottery participants will likely be turned away. Almost like the annual ceremony of watching the Super Bowl or the Oscars, the running industry watches the pricing of the NYC Marathon to see where running futures might be headed... The fees for 2008 represent an across-the-board increase of $25 in fees from the 2007 registration - although the 2008 fees include bus travel to start, something that the marathon charged $20 for in past years. We will, as we do annually
, continue to remark on our pet peeve of the charge of a
$11 ($10 in 2007 and $7 in 2006 and prior)
processing fee to enter the New York City Marathon lottery, which is unprecedented in the industry - especially when assessed against those who are not selected. As we'll always note, that's
approximately half a million dollars from runners who are denied entry to the race - that's something we've still never seen in other USA running events and is equivalent to the entire runner registration budget for many races...". With how actively I used to race with the
NYRR? Today?...my annual registration fees paid would be about $700/year - and that's as a member at a discounted rate. But I would have about 35 T-shirts I guess. But it's the memories - right? They're priceless. Well...after you've raced the course several dozen times the memories are blurred - when I reflect now - I recall "seasons". I recall races at 0F degrees - & snow, Summer hot humid night races, beautiful Autumn & Spring races. Racing in rain, etc - blurred because perhaps yes, I train in Central Park - on the very race course - a place I've ran thousands of times. I sense a
monetization &
corporatization trend w/the
NYRR of just about everything as of late. On my own I can make a donation online to the Central Park Conservancy or to any and all of the organizations benefiting from the
NYRR....Besides... who is the Scotland Day 10K race at the end of this month for? The Brooklyn Half? It's not like all these races are for a cause or something - other than the
NYRR and their charter. The
NYRR do a lot of good deeds - however I gotta say it, upon
relfection, it's not the
NYRR that make races in Central Park so great - it's Central Park. I've had some unbelievable memorable runs in Central Park alone, and also with a friend. These are my thoughts as I try & pick and choose which events to race in w/the
NYRR - and really think through and justify why. I don't need to participate in any amount of
NYRR races to qualify for the NYC Marathon. I'll probably race the Brooklyn Half & NYC Half due to the venue the
NYRR creates - enabling me to race courses / paths I otherwise wound not be able to. It's March and that above is what Central Park will look like in about another 3 weeks. I'm not downing the
NYRR now - however their monetized corporate culture is just prompting me to do the same thing - I am focusing on "value" - and probing why certain races offer "value" to me - and others don't. It's not clear
NYRR events in Central Park bring me anything of value I can't obtain, and do every day, on my own - just a thought. It's funny - in speaking with numerous long time runners - everyone kind of is on the same page here - the monetization trend of the NYRR, I've learned many local runners simply find "running community joy" with their own running organizations and clubs - and simply view the NYRR as Walmart for example - only participating in team point races for example. Just thoughts. Have a great day -
C Marathon is $166! the International Fee? $221. Damn...(the only saving grace for foreign runners is the U.S. dollar sucks on the exchange market). However Marathonguide.com addresses this "*lottery "processing fee". They say, "....Registration open from 2/25 to 5/1 for guaranteed and international participants and through 6/1 for general lottery participants - plus, our annual pet peeve moment... Acceptance into the ING New York City Marathon is one of the most difficult annual feats for runners. Registration by lottery is 'til June 1st with the results announced in mid-June. By certain estimates, approximately 50,000 lottery participants will likely be turned away. Almost like the annual ceremony of watching the Super Bowl or the Oscars, the running industry watches the pricing of the NYC Marathon to see where running futures might be headed... The fees for 2008 represent an across-the-board increase of $25 in fees from the 2007 registration - although the 2008 fees include bus travel to start, something that the marathon charged $20 for in past years. We will, as we do annually
, continue to remark on our pet peeve of the charge of a $11 ($10 in 2007 and $7 in 2006 and prior) processing fee to enter the New York City Marathon lottery, which is unprecedented in the industry - especially when assessed against those who are not selected. As we'll always note, that's approximately half a million dollars from runners who are denied entry to the race - that's something we've still never seen in other USA running events and is equivalent to the entire runner registration budget for many races...". With how actively I used to race with the NYRR? Today?...my annual registration fees paid would be about $700/year - and that's as a member at a discounted rate. But I would have about 35 T-shirts I guess. But it's the memories - right? They're priceless. Well...after you've raced the course several dozen times the memories are blurred - when I reflect now - I recall "seasons". I recall races at 0F degrees - & snow, Summer hot humid night races, beautiful Autumn & Spring races. Racing in rain, etc - blurred because perhaps yes, I train in Central Park - on the very race course - a place I've ran thousands of times. I sense a
monetization & corporatization trend w/the NYRR of just about everything as of late. On my own I can make a donation online to the Central Park Conservancy or to any and all of the organizations benefiting from the NYRR....Besides... who is the Scotland Day 10K race at the end of this month for? The Brooklyn Half? It's not like all these races are for a cause or something - other than the NYRR and their charter. The NYRR do a lot of good deeds - however I gotta say it, upon relfection, it's not the NYRR that make races in Central Park so great - it's Central Park. I've had some unbelievable memorable runs in Central Park alone, and also with a friend. These are my thoughts as I try & pick and choose which events to race in w/the NYRR - and really think through and justify why. I don't need to participate in any amount of NYRR races to qualify for the NYC Marathon. I'll probably race the Brooklyn Half & NYC Half due to the venue the NYRR creates - enabling me to race courses / paths I otherwise wound not be able to. It's March and that above is what Central Park will look like in about another 3 weeks. I'm not downing the NYRR now - however their monetized corporate culture is just prompting me to do the same thing - I am focusing on "value" - and probing why certain races offer "value" to me - and others don't. It's not clear NYRR events in Central Park bring me anything of value I can't obtain, and do every day, on my own - just a thought. It's funny - in speaking with numerous long time runners - everyone kind of is on the same page here - the monetization trend of the NYRR, I've learned many local runners simply find "running community joy" with their own running organizations and clubs - and simply view the NYRR as Walmart for example - only participating in team point races for example. Just thoughts. Have a great day -
6 Comments:
Great post today Lance.
I feel the same way about the NYRR. The last few NYRR races in which I've participated, for whatever reason, they just didn't seem to be as much fun as previous races.
You brought up a very good point- it's difficult to list a favorite NYRR race. For me personally, I would have to say my most memorable race would be the 2005 Nike Run Hit Wonder. I'm sure you remember that one- it was about 90 degrees in CPK that evening, with oppressive humidity.
In the past, one would be rewarded with excellent quality t-shirts, long sleeved tees, even sweatshirts depending on the race. Now, however, all of the shirts are short sleeved (even for the December races, go figure)and the material is of poor quality.
Another way in which the NYRR makes tons of cash off of these races- there is no refund if you aren't able to participate in a race for which you've already registered. There have been numerous races for which I have registered and because of illness, last minute business trips, etc. did not show up that weekend.
SpaHa Runner
I'm with you Lance. It's well and truly commercialized. I submitted my lottery entry the same day it was opened. The exchange rate is USD1 = RM3.3 and you can imagine how bad it's gonna hurt my pockets should I be accepted. But then it's the NYCM and for me, it'll probably be my one and only one, given the expenses. It's for the memories. So I'm gonna pray like hell that I'd be one of the successful ones. After NYC, I'm
aiming to do London (another lottery based event) in 2 year's time and then Gold Coast Australia.
BTW another posting of Ted Corbitt here http://footloose.runnersworld.com/2007/12/rip-ted-corbitt.html
Prices are a function of supply and demand. The fact that 50,000 people feel that the mere possibility of running the NYC Marathon is worth $10 means that they could probably charge more for it. Same logic goes for the $166.
If you're ever so inclined, check out the burger joint in the lobby of the Parker Meriden down on 56th. Most days there's a line to get in for the privilege of laying out $6.50 for a hamburger. And it's not a big, giant hamburger but more on the White Castle-ish side. Add fries and a coke and it's up around $12. It is a damn good burger but sometimes the line is 20 minutes long--I'm thinking they would have to charge $10 for the burger before the line would go away and you could get a great burger without the wait.
My point is, there ain't no more supply for the NYC Marathon and demand isn't going anywhere--running is on the upswing, the race is promoted on national TV and even blogs like this one contribute to the excitement(!). Expect prices to go up even higher and for further development secondary markets on Craigslist etc.
As more people with a thirst to run amongst great competition in NYC are turned away from the marathon there will be spillover demand pressures on the other NYC races pushing up those prices as well.
So what are you gonna do? Short of organizing your own events you can't really increase the supply of NYC races. On the demand side, you're doing what you can by *not* running in the NYRR events--there are probably a lot of NYC runners like yourself who have been put off by the whole experience and are starting to vote with their feet--but there are plenty of out-of-towners to take your place.
Perhaps your best course is to take daily enjoyment in your runs around the park and satisfy your bloodlust for competition in smaller, out-of-town races (Cowtown anyone? :-) It's sad but the NYC Marathon has gone the way of Knick's tickets--real fans can't afford 'em.
Regarding the monetization of the NYRR--it sounds like it's no longer striking the right balance between fulfilling its charter and its need to make money. But at least it has a job for you:
http://www.nyrr.org/about/jobs.asp#webcondir
Richard
>The fact that 50,000 people feel that the mere possibility of running the NYC Marathon is worth $10 means that they could probably charge more for it. Same logic goes for the $166.
_
Disagree Richard - the NYRR is a non-profit, their modis operandi & functioning should not parallel a business model of private for profit entity.
Furthermore IT/data processing cost have gone down - yet this fee goes up? How is that? This can be (and might be) going straight to India for all I know - it should be. But Mary W. is brilliant - this is a pure profit play sector and they are milking it for all it's worth - and that's $500,000+. Also over 100,000 will pay the $11 fee.
>My point is, there ain't no more supply for the NYC Marathon and demand isn't going anywhere-
=
Following your logic Richard, the NYC Marathon field would be 100% foreign - as they could easily fill up 40,000+ bibs / slots to $221 paying foreign people. You can't apply a pure supply/demand - economic play here because they're a non-profit and the even relies heavily on tax payer resources to pull off. It's not a private venture on private property.
A lot of people are talking about marathons becoming private for profits business models - the NYRR could indeed become a private for profit business.
In fact annually there will be an Op Ed pieces in a local papers outlining the outrage it is for a NYC taxpayer to subsidize the event (NYC Marathon) - yet not have access to participate in it - even though complete foreigners do. (the guarantee of entry after 3 failed lotteries is the response to this).
Keep in mind NYRR events in Central Park are not without its controversy. Another point - it's commonplace when entering a race to opt in or out to get the Shirt opting out reducing your cost by $5 or whatever. Why don't the NYRR offer this? It can be done - however it runs counter to maximizing dollars out of your pocket - doesn't it? The NYRR do everything to maximize dollars. I don't know if you recall, but 5 years ago or so they ended the lifetime membership deal where you paid a $1K or whatever and raced for life at no cost other than the Marathon - they ended that because it there was more money to be made from the would- be customer of that product without offering it.
Now having said this - I think Mary W. has done a great job - very dynamic person - and a hell of an ex runner - you know she qualified for the Olympics by winning the Marine Corps Marathon way back when.
However she's got competing interest - maximizing money, building a brand, etc. - and skating the line and appearance of a "non-profit" (rely heavily on volunteers, tax dollars, and public resources like Central Park) to keep it all going forward.
My prediction? The NYRR will remain a non profit for year round events - however the NYC Marathon and Half Marathon will become private events - somehow they (Mary W. and the NYRR) will figure out a way to create some new entity to connect and manage these events - why? They're too big - too much money - world demand - it's now the SuperBowl.
>But at least it has a job for you:
http://www.nyrr.org/about/jobs.asp#webcondir
They won't meet my 2 demands, Mary Wittenberg's $300K base salary and the right to curse at will.
By all means, keep on cursing!
I wasn't making the case that the NYRR should or should not attempt to maximize profit in the context of fulfiling their charter, only that the law of supply/demand (which applies to scarce resources, e.g. sex, regardless of the corporate/legal structure of the entities involved) supports the prices being charged.
The truth is that the NYRR fulfills its charter on the backs of its members, local municipalities, corporations and to a large extent the weekend warriors who enter races. Because the charter involves giving back the local community through the foundation, safety programs, etc. one could argue that everything comes out for the good, and that the more money the NYRR raises the better. Non-profit is a misnomer anyway--non-profit organizations are allowed to generate a profit but face restrictions in how they disburse those profits.
I'm not discounting the localized impact to us weekend warriors--races are more crowded, more costly, lack a local community feel due to corporate logos on everything--but let's face it, running for us is a hobby done on our free time with our disposable income. And if it's a hobby that supports the community through the NYRR, I don't see what all the fuss is bout.
Richard
I've been in NYC for less than a year. I've run a dozen races in Central Park. No offense to all the natives, but booooring. Okay already! I've seen the park. It's like the same loop, but they just move the start lines around like a clock.
I'll finish my 9+1 this year and get my guaranteed marathon entry for 2010. But in 2010, I don't really plan to run any other NYRR races, unless they are outside Manhattan. There are so many other events around the city and the region--I CAN'T WAIT to experience all of them!!!
See you on the road!
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